mustaine
07-03-2008, 06:26 PM
found it, post it
The traditional model in use by the majority of ASFers I've met is
the following:
-Assume that girls must be "hooked" in order to be interested in
you. (Sometimes true to varying degrees) -Approach with prepared
opinion opener designed to engage girls, meanwhile feigning
disinterest. -Assume since you're approaching her, she's
automatically more valuable, so... -Go right into story to in order to
display higher value, which will generate the attraction which was
previously not present. -Continue to tell stories, tease girls until you
get clear indication of interest. -Phase shift into "rapport / comfort"
which consists of ordinary conversation, dropping the personality
she was interested in initially. -Bait her into qualifying herself to
you, and no matter what she says, SOI her for that. (This step ain't
so bad) -Isolate and escalate. (This one isn't either :)
Six Common Sticking Points in Execution of the Traditional Model. Six Common Sticking Points in Execution of the Traditional Model. Six Common Sticking Points in Execution of the Traditional Model. Six Common Sticking Points in Execution of the Traditional Model.
Sticking Point #1.
The first problem with this approach is that people mouth canned
openers without a context for them. Style had an entire post
dedicated to this point alone, so I won't go into detail here. (Rooting
- problem with the who lies more opener)
If you want to use opinion openers either: A. Genuinely care about
the topic. -or- B. Make sure it's obvious that the opinion opener is
just an excuse to talk to her. (In this case, ask it and then quickly
change topics)
Sticking Point #2.
.
Secondly, guys spend hours and hours on this website, learning
material, preparing a routine stack which is designed to engage girls.
These guys go out of their way to learn these girly topics of
conversation which the majority of us aren't really interested in, just
to get female attention. And then on top of that, they pretend that
they aren't really interested in fucking the girls! Then, the moment
they "stack" these girly openers and DHV's, she's CONVINCED
they want something and she knows exactly what they are up to.
Feigning disinterest now becomes highly incongruent. I mean
seriously. To go out of your way to learn girly topics of
conversation, just to have permission to talk to chicks is
SUPPLICATION. Entering a females reality just so we can talk to
her for a few minutes with the hopes of fucking her is ridiculous!
Here's an -wordremoved--wordremoved--wordremoved--wordremoved-ogy. What if a girl went out of her way to learn all
about sports or cars or (insert masculine topic here), even though
she didn't really like or understand these things - just so she could
relate to guys in conversation? This girl doesn't really care about
these things, but is pretending to, and spending hours and hours on
the internet learning about them, just so she has permission to talk
to guys. Does this telegraph that she has an interesting life? Is she
telegraphing that she is a valued commodity? NO! Exactly the
opposite. If a girl like this came up to me, and talked about things
that interested me, I might engage her for a bit, but would I be
ATTRACTED TO HER? Hell no. Now what if she kept changing
subjects and kept desperately trying to find something I wanted to
talk about... would that make me more likely to find her interesting?
It may appear to work marvelously because it gets new guys into set,
because now they are actually talking to girls whereas previously
they stood there and did nothing, having absolutely zero context. But the majority of people reading this do not need that kind of
content to be interesting to women. Learning girly topics of
conversation WILL get you to open more sets consistently - but it's
under an entertainment / girlfriend frame, and while things will
seem great that night, she will be almost guaranteed to flake. You
won't get laid.
I've questioned SHBs (after I've slept with them and they're more
honest) about this. These are girls who go out and are almost always
the hottest girls in the club, wherever they go. This is what one of
them told me:
"Yeah sometimes we talk to guys out of pity. If a guy seems really
weird or is dressed gay or something, we'll talk to him just so we
can laugh about him later. It's fun. He thinks he's getting
somewhere, but then at the end we run away from him laughing."
Girls will talk to sufficiently weird enough guys who "seem gay" for
THEIR OWN ENTERTAINMENT. This is a fact, and very
common with hot girls. They will sit there and eye code each other,
loving it, not because they are sexually attracted, but OUT OF PITY.
Don't design your game so that you are becoming this type of guy.
Sure you are opening more sets, but it's for the wrong reason.
Sticking Point #3.
Demonstrating Higher Value. The reason why this is detrimental
once again goes back to the mindset behind it. Feeling the need to
demonstrate higher value is the same feeling that an AFC has when
he starts bragging about his job or car or girls he's banging. Sure,
you are using a more sophisticated technique, but the mindset and
beliefs behind it are EXACTLY THE SAME.
Never go out of your way to demonstrate higher value. Assume
higher value! You're the fucking man! You have higher value
automatically!
I tell plenty of stories in set, but I do it for fun, because I'm having
fun doing it -- not with the intent of "proving myself" to the girl.
Sticking Point #4.
It is impossible to fake disinterest 100% of the time. Even if you
memorize 5 stories, 3 teases and absolutely MASTER the backturn,
it doesn't matter because you'll fail the next test she throws at you.
Women are CONTINUALLY testing guys they are attracted to, and
most of it doesn't fit a predetermined pattern -- IT's NONVERBAL.
I get tested all the time by women. They're thinking "Who the fuck
does he think he is, this skinny little fucker... I'm gonna see if he's for real. I hope he's not wasting my time." So they have to test you.
They don't want to fuck some ingenuine guy that faked the first 10
minutes really well. You have got to be the real deal through and
through, my friend. And faking any more than you can back up, will
just insight more intense tests which you are bound to fail.
Don't fake disinterest unless you can back it up 100%.
Sticking Point #5.
Relying on IOI's in order feel like it's *on*, instead of assuming
attraction. Thinking too much and calculating your behavior based
on watching for IOI's. Don't wait around for IOI's before feeling
good about the sarge. Her interest will be based on your vibe
anyway, and if your vibe is dependent on watching for
predetermined IOI's, then you are leaving it up to chance.
Let's face it, most IOI's that people look for are pretty ordinary
behaviors that women exhibit when you talk to them anyway. Some
of the popular one's I've heard are:
She asks you where you're from - This is one of the most common
pieces of smalltalk when you're first getting to know each other. She
may be asking you this just to be friendly, it doesn't mean she wants
to fuck you. She touches you - women are actually more likely to touch you if they aren't as attracted to you, as a way of playing with you. If a woman senses extremely high value, and is a bit intimidated, she is less likely to touch you. She is also less likely to touch you first if you are very direct. Of course, if you don't even have a chance, she
won't touch you at all. Either way, unreliable as an IOI.
Remember, one of the two things necessary in pickup is the belief
that the girl wants you. It may be difficult to believe at first but keep
reminding yourself of this, and train yourself to see *everything* she
does as an IOI. Is she looking at you when you talk? It's on. Is she
contributing to the conversation? It's on. Is she standing in your
physical proximity? It's ON!
Sticking Point #6. .
Dropping the personality that initially attracted her as a part of a
"phase shift", mistakenly thinking it takes X amount of time to
attract a woman, or feeling the need to "transition into" X,Y or Z.
It sounds like three different points, but really they all stem from the
same type of beliefs and mindsets. They come from leftover society
programming like "It takes a long time for women to become
attracted." or "Men have to earn a woman's attention and
attraction." If you do actually do well to convey a fun personality to a chick in the first few moments of meeting her, such that she is attracted to you, you should maintain that same fun personality while getting to know her better and deepening your connection. Intersperse your c+f and playfullness with your rapport. But at all costs, stay
congruent and do not become someone else entirely.
On the flip side, do not stay in a perpetual attraction stage where
you are running material for the upwards of 10 - 20 minutes. That is
WAY too long. If you use a couple of fun pieces to open a set, and
they respond well to that, they have already made a positive
judgement of you. Keep it light on the material and rely more on
sharing positive energy with the set, and particularly your target.
Also a lot of people believe that you need a 'transition' to do certain
things - especially kinesthetic related actions like touching, kissing,
and cavemanning. You do not need a transition for these types of
things. You just need to do them with the full certainty that she will
enjoy it. Decide what you are going to do, and do it like you mean
it.
The traditional model in use by the majority of ASFers I've met is
the following:
-Assume that girls must be "hooked" in order to be interested in
you. (Sometimes true to varying degrees) -Approach with prepared
opinion opener designed to engage girls, meanwhile feigning
disinterest. -Assume since you're approaching her, she's
automatically more valuable, so... -Go right into story to in order to
display higher value, which will generate the attraction which was
previously not present. -Continue to tell stories, tease girls until you
get clear indication of interest. -Phase shift into "rapport / comfort"
which consists of ordinary conversation, dropping the personality
she was interested in initially. -Bait her into qualifying herself to
you, and no matter what she says, SOI her for that. (This step ain't
so bad) -Isolate and escalate. (This one isn't either :)
Six Common Sticking Points in Execution of the Traditional Model. Six Common Sticking Points in Execution of the Traditional Model. Six Common Sticking Points in Execution of the Traditional Model. Six Common Sticking Points in Execution of the Traditional Model.
Sticking Point #1.
The first problem with this approach is that people mouth canned
openers without a context for them. Style had an entire post
dedicated to this point alone, so I won't go into detail here. (Rooting
- problem with the who lies more opener)
If you want to use opinion openers either: A. Genuinely care about
the topic. -or- B. Make sure it's obvious that the opinion opener is
just an excuse to talk to her. (In this case, ask it and then quickly
change topics)
Sticking Point #2.
.
Secondly, guys spend hours and hours on this website, learning
material, preparing a routine stack which is designed to engage girls.
These guys go out of their way to learn these girly topics of
conversation which the majority of us aren't really interested in, just
to get female attention. And then on top of that, they pretend that
they aren't really interested in fucking the girls! Then, the moment
they "stack" these girly openers and DHV's, she's CONVINCED
they want something and she knows exactly what they are up to.
Feigning disinterest now becomes highly incongruent. I mean
seriously. To go out of your way to learn girly topics of
conversation, just to have permission to talk to chicks is
SUPPLICATION. Entering a females reality just so we can talk to
her for a few minutes with the hopes of fucking her is ridiculous!
Here's an -wordremoved--wordremoved--wordremoved--wordremoved-ogy. What if a girl went out of her way to learn all
about sports or cars or (insert masculine topic here), even though
she didn't really like or understand these things - just so she could
relate to guys in conversation? This girl doesn't really care about
these things, but is pretending to, and spending hours and hours on
the internet learning about them, just so she has permission to talk
to guys. Does this telegraph that she has an interesting life? Is she
telegraphing that she is a valued commodity? NO! Exactly the
opposite. If a girl like this came up to me, and talked about things
that interested me, I might engage her for a bit, but would I be
ATTRACTED TO HER? Hell no. Now what if she kept changing
subjects and kept desperately trying to find something I wanted to
talk about... would that make me more likely to find her interesting?
It may appear to work marvelously because it gets new guys into set,
because now they are actually talking to girls whereas previously
they stood there and did nothing, having absolutely zero context. But the majority of people reading this do not need that kind of
content to be interesting to women. Learning girly topics of
conversation WILL get you to open more sets consistently - but it's
under an entertainment / girlfriend frame, and while things will
seem great that night, she will be almost guaranteed to flake. You
won't get laid.
I've questioned SHBs (after I've slept with them and they're more
honest) about this. These are girls who go out and are almost always
the hottest girls in the club, wherever they go. This is what one of
them told me:
"Yeah sometimes we talk to guys out of pity. If a guy seems really
weird or is dressed gay or something, we'll talk to him just so we
can laugh about him later. It's fun. He thinks he's getting
somewhere, but then at the end we run away from him laughing."
Girls will talk to sufficiently weird enough guys who "seem gay" for
THEIR OWN ENTERTAINMENT. This is a fact, and very
common with hot girls. They will sit there and eye code each other,
loving it, not because they are sexually attracted, but OUT OF PITY.
Don't design your game so that you are becoming this type of guy.
Sure you are opening more sets, but it's for the wrong reason.
Sticking Point #3.
Demonstrating Higher Value. The reason why this is detrimental
once again goes back to the mindset behind it. Feeling the need to
demonstrate higher value is the same feeling that an AFC has when
he starts bragging about his job or car or girls he's banging. Sure,
you are using a more sophisticated technique, but the mindset and
beliefs behind it are EXACTLY THE SAME.
Never go out of your way to demonstrate higher value. Assume
higher value! You're the fucking man! You have higher value
automatically!
I tell plenty of stories in set, but I do it for fun, because I'm having
fun doing it -- not with the intent of "proving myself" to the girl.
Sticking Point #4.
It is impossible to fake disinterest 100% of the time. Even if you
memorize 5 stories, 3 teases and absolutely MASTER the backturn,
it doesn't matter because you'll fail the next test she throws at you.
Women are CONTINUALLY testing guys they are attracted to, and
most of it doesn't fit a predetermined pattern -- IT's NONVERBAL.
I get tested all the time by women. They're thinking "Who the fuck
does he think he is, this skinny little fucker... I'm gonna see if he's for real. I hope he's not wasting my time." So they have to test you.
They don't want to fuck some ingenuine guy that faked the first 10
minutes really well. You have got to be the real deal through and
through, my friend. And faking any more than you can back up, will
just insight more intense tests which you are bound to fail.
Don't fake disinterest unless you can back it up 100%.
Sticking Point #5.
Relying on IOI's in order feel like it's *on*, instead of assuming
attraction. Thinking too much and calculating your behavior based
on watching for IOI's. Don't wait around for IOI's before feeling
good about the sarge. Her interest will be based on your vibe
anyway, and if your vibe is dependent on watching for
predetermined IOI's, then you are leaving it up to chance.
Let's face it, most IOI's that people look for are pretty ordinary
behaviors that women exhibit when you talk to them anyway. Some
of the popular one's I've heard are:
She asks you where you're from - This is one of the most common
pieces of smalltalk when you're first getting to know each other. She
may be asking you this just to be friendly, it doesn't mean she wants
to fuck you. She touches you - women are actually more likely to touch you if they aren't as attracted to you, as a way of playing with you. If a woman senses extremely high value, and is a bit intimidated, she is less likely to touch you. She is also less likely to touch you first if you are very direct. Of course, if you don't even have a chance, she
won't touch you at all. Either way, unreliable as an IOI.
Remember, one of the two things necessary in pickup is the belief
that the girl wants you. It may be difficult to believe at first but keep
reminding yourself of this, and train yourself to see *everything* she
does as an IOI. Is she looking at you when you talk? It's on. Is she
contributing to the conversation? It's on. Is she standing in your
physical proximity? It's ON!
Sticking Point #6. .
Dropping the personality that initially attracted her as a part of a
"phase shift", mistakenly thinking it takes X amount of time to
attract a woman, or feeling the need to "transition into" X,Y or Z.
It sounds like three different points, but really they all stem from the
same type of beliefs and mindsets. They come from leftover society
programming like "It takes a long time for women to become
attracted." or "Men have to earn a woman's attention and
attraction." If you do actually do well to convey a fun personality to a chick in the first few moments of meeting her, such that she is attracted to you, you should maintain that same fun personality while getting to know her better and deepening your connection. Intersperse your c+f and playfullness with your rapport. But at all costs, stay
congruent and do not become someone else entirely.
On the flip side, do not stay in a perpetual attraction stage where
you are running material for the upwards of 10 - 20 minutes. That is
WAY too long. If you use a couple of fun pieces to open a set, and
they respond well to that, they have already made a positive
judgement of you. Keep it light on the material and rely more on
sharing positive energy with the set, and particularly your target.
Also a lot of people believe that you need a 'transition' to do certain
things - especially kinesthetic related actions like touching, kissing,
and cavemanning. You do not need a transition for these types of
things. You just need to do them with the full certainty that she will
enjoy it. Decide what you are going to do, and do it like you mean
it.