As if we just met

[WickPlusC]

I am dealing with a twoset (female female), HB8 and HB10. HB10 is distant as usual. So nothing special.

I use negs and I use a story(marriage). They bring the topic up because they tell me that they bought some dresses to visit someone else's marriage with. I use statements. There is never a point when they contribute - except by asking questions. HB8 starts asking "why I keep on changing the subject" several times. I always reply with "because I want to - don't you want to talk about <summary of what I said, was always sth being interesting to girls>". HB8 and HB10 smile. And go back to their old posture of demanding again.

Meaning, they do anything they can to not establish comfort.

At the end of the conversation I say "can you do me a favor?!" to HB10 and HB10 actually said: "Why should I do you a favor?"

Shittest, yeah whatever. Thing is, I felt like I could go on and on and each time I am qualifying they back off. I started qualifiying quite early. Each time I want something they behave as if we just met.

Ideas? Are these the girls you have to use routines with?

[Nargaroth]

Where should I start....

Basically your whole metaframe is wrong, you're trying to be an entertainer and girls may enjoy that... but you should get them to invest... to commit... to share their story and their value.

Usually in this situation I'd presume chick(s) are attention whores with ADD but if girl's asking "why you keep on changing the subject" it means that attraction is not a problem, they probably even like you to an extent... But you're being emotionally closed off and they simply cannot connect with you. And I think you'd all enjoy that.

I think they want to see your vulnerability, not your routines. They just want to see you are human... and real.

Don't look at it as qualifying them - look at it as meeting new interesting human beings.
Not as trying to impress some hotties.
That 10 is someone's daughter and someones's sister... and she still needs to eat, shit and fart like everybody else. :D

[WickPlusC]

I heard that a lot, so ok, I'll focus on that.

How is this phase called in which you offer something more personal.

Or

Which material being available here do you recommend for that and which part of it.

I still have one concern: Would you tell about how you failed somewhere if she has never made an effort(ie qualified herself) and would say "fuck off" or "why should I do you a favour"?

[Nargaroth]

I heard that a lot, so ok, I'll focus on that.

How is this phase called in which you offer something more personal.

Rapport :)

Pay more attention to C2 & C3.

Even Mystery says that "game is played in Comfort"
Almost all of us (me particularly) would stay in Attraction phase for FAR too long when we first started learning M3.



Which material being available here do you recommend for that and which part of it.

Just for rapport?

Swinggcat's Natural Vibing (http://www.seductiondatabase.com/showthread.php?t=4181) is pretty good if you're into Classic Pickup (Classic Pickup = not natural game)

I still have one concern: Would you tell about how you failed somewhere if she has never made an effort(ie qualified herself) and would say "fuck off" or "why should I do you a favour"?

Actually chicks were never openly rude towards me - I live in a patriarchal society.

But I used to get freezed out a LOT... usually when I gamed too hard or when using negs. It's usually beyond repair, cause you set the wrong metaframe and showed very low value - if you're not skilled in Damage Control it's best to simply walk away (http://www.seductiondatabase.com/showthread.php?t=3506).

I don't use routines any more - I make sure I'm preselected before I even approach her, I open and qualify her... than move into rapport. How do I pull that off? I have pretty good body language, dress cool, have good friends and/or pivots around me (all this = high social value) and basically just act friendly & fun (giving value) with target and her friends. If you game this way her friends will stop being obstacles & even talk her into hooking up with you (peer pressure).

I suggest you go see Doc :)

especially his "Creating a High Impact 1st Impressions" video:
Dr. A. Georges Sabongui - Dating Skills for Men [3 DVDs + 1PDF] (http://www.seductiondatabase.com/showthread.php?t=3803)

it will be gold to you - it's basically about what I (& Swinggcat) refer to as "setting the Metaframe". After that check this out (on social value):

Dr. A. Georges Sabongui - The Art Of Social Networking [PDF] (http://www.seductiondatabase.com/showthread.php?t=3621)

Good luck! :)

[sniper420]

you are coming off as an entertainer and not making the girls invest in stories. That HB comment shows you were trying hard to entertain them.

[WickPlusC]

Fine, sniper420. How do you force women to qualify themselves?

[Dr.Pepper]

Fine, sniper420. How do you force women to qualify themselves?

Mostly it's about asking the right questions. Then you just see how much effort they are actually taking to answer. The more effort you get the more they are emotionally already attached to you. It's basically all about effort if you listen to Juggler. Check him out.

[Nargaroth]

It is about asking the right kinda questions if you're the right kinda person.

So it's, as always, first BE (or at least emulate / fake it, in the beginning) then DO.

Imagine that you are going to work, and you're almost late because you wake up too late... It's your first time in this new company and you are wearing that new Emporio Armani Suit you bought when they decided to hire you.

Suddenly a bum stops you, looks you up and down, and instead of asking you for change says: "hey man, why are you striving so hard for success, why are you trying to self-improve every day. Do you have some insecurities, do you hate yourself deep down, do you think your parents were losers or you just didn't get enough love as a kid?"

This may be a quite interesting question to go into with your drug-enhanced party-girl girlfriend, but this is neither the time, the place and definitely not the person you want to debate it with.
Do you agree?

[WickPlusC]

I totally agree that you missed the point.

[Nargaroth]

Nah, I didn't miss the point.

I didn't answer your question directly, instead I gave a comment on your wholesome situation... because I thought you may be more satisfied with the truth instead of the branded marketing hype.

************************************************** ******

Metaframe 1 (PUA paralysis)

Dude, it's all good, you just didn't demostrate high-enough survival and replication value.
But it's all good, first you need to remember what the DHV spikes are:

1) leader of men
2) preselected by women
3) protector of loved ones
4) willing to emote
5) willing to walk away

[truth be told, if you payed more attention to 4. i 5. you'd be much better off]

Ofcourse, you could take, time and discipline to develop all of these traits... but why bother, right? Get some new materials and just use Venusian Arts new routine stack.
Or if you get busted on it few times, just go home and construct your own stories, from your won experiences. Yeah, like the stotry about that time when you were cruisin with that hot stripper in a brand new convertible...


************************************************** ******

Metaframe 2 (Becoming a Better Man)

Yeah, Mystery does have some good ideas (that's why he's on my avatar LOL) but sometimes he just seems too fucking weird. If you're really into his stuff, take "Mind of Mystery" but listen to the Audio discs with Lovedrop - they are much more useful, and he has much healthier personality than Mister E. You'll find some useful and down-to-earth advices there. Or you can even go further and listen to this guy...



Let's imagine that you were homeless and lived in a cardboard box.

So you're out at a party and a girl comes up to you and says

"I want you to give it to me TONIGHT...take me to your place!"

Would you take her back your crib?

Chances are...no.

Becuase you'd know that as soon as she saw you were living in a goddarn cardboard
box, she'd run.

And the embaressment would be unbearable.

Now let's just for a second imagine that you lived in a mansion.

Think Entourage style - the one vinny and his boys live in.

Would you take her there?

HELL YEAH

Because you'd know that when she shows up, she'll never want to leave. And she'll be
even more in love with you...more attracted to you...she'll know that you've got what
she's been looking for.

Ok.

So what's this got to do with you?

EVERYTHING

Right now, chances are...one of the major things thats fucking you up is the fact that you
on a deep deep level KNOW that your life is a cardboard box and not a mansion.

Like, forget girls for a second...you know...just forget girls...how cool is your actual LIFE?

How much fun do you and your friends have?

How many insanely fun/crazy things do you do?

How much action is there in any given day?

Is your apartment/dorm pimped out and ready to receive ladies?

Are you hitting the gym hard?

Are you taking care of the grades during the day so you can rock it at night?

What type of clothes are you repping?

What type of music you got blasting in the background?

Playing any sports? Why not?

How many times a week are you grabbing lunch with some girlfriends?

Any cool hobbies?

See what I'm getting at here...?

Right now, on a deep deep lvel you know that you aren't living in a mansion. And you're
holding back with the girls because she knows that once she "discovers you" aka
sees that you're living in a cardboard box of a life...she'll run.

Now the way to beat this IS NOT to build a better pickup system to get girls back to your
cardboard box...the way to beat this is to...

BUILD A MANSION

A lifestyle that kicks so much ass that you'll basically be a promoter every night.

Like, you'll go out and your goal will be to get girls to see how awesome your life is.

It would be like if you lived in a massive mega mansion with the dopest home theatre
you'd ever seen.....you'd be trying to get people over for movies EVERYNIGHT.

And then, once you do build that mansion (social skills are part of the mansion), you
can work on upgrading your VW beetle to a Ferrari so you can get girls there quicker
(the advance techniques).

Ok.

Hope that made sense.

Would love to hear your thoughts.

Keep on Rockin',
Mark

[Tommyp89]

Awesome post by that Mark guy. It's so simple, yet so overlooked.

Thanks for that.